Comments on playing organs/pianos/keyboards

[Hugh-AR]

Comments on playing organs/pianos/keyboards

Do you play an organ, a piano or a keyboard?

Didn't get this question quite right! So don't say, "Yes!". I wasn't asking if you play an organ, a piano or a keyboard .. I was asking which of these you play! I am hoping in this topic to discuss some of the differences in playing these instruments, and get some observations on how you play your organ, piano or keyboard. Some of the comments I would expect to be a bit controversial as we all have our own way of doing things. But go for it. Let us know about any observations you have when playing your keyboard by clicking on POSTREPLY.

I'll start the ball rolling with some of my thoughts.

Seems to me that the basic difference between playing an organ or piano, and a keyboard is that with an organ or piano, all the 'harmony' and 'movement' is created by 'moving fingers of both hands'. So you have to have a full score and read all those notes to get the piece sounding as intended.

A keyboard player, on the other hand, gets the harmony by holding down a chord with the left hand.

The movement is created by the STYLE BACKING PARTS. And STYLE BACKINGS are geared up to follow a fixed 'measure' of so many bars (normally either 2 or 4) .. and then they 'repeat'. So once a chord has been played on the first beat of the bar you should let your backing instruments do what they have been programmed to do and play their 'patterns' of notes. Or basically, if you are using a STYLE don't try and compete with it by playing the notes written on the sheet music.

Here is an example of sheet music specifically written for organ, found for us by Ken Hall. It has an extra bass line for you to play the pedals.

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Or you can click the PDF link below it to load the music directly.



http://www.ar-group.org/Files/More(G).pdf

Looking at this music, there are chords written over the top of the bars. These chords are not what anybody is expecting the organist to play. He/she already have their hands full playing the harmonies and notes as written! The guitar chords are there for a guitarist to play when accompanying the organist. They will both then be 'in harmony' with the piece.

As I said above, when using a STYLE to play something it is the 'patterns' programmed into the backing PARTS of the Style that create the 'harmony' and 'movement' of the piece. So ideally, you should choose a STYLE that best represents the 'patterns' in the music. When I play something, I will try as far as possible only to change chords on the first beat of the bar. The chords as written below are what I like to have in front of me as a reminder of what the basic chords are for me to play.

So here is More played the 'keyboard way' .. and underneath are the chords. These are chords that I have put in for my 'band members' to follow. And I won't try and compete with them by playing all those written notes in the sheet music, and I won't keep changing the harmony by playing a different chord every few notes.

More played on my Tyros 4 the 'keyboard way' by holding chords.
Whilst it is playing see if you can follow my chords from the PDF below.



Chords I am playing with my left hand.
If the PDF does not show, refresh the page (you may have to do this a couple of times).
Or you can click the PDF link below to load the music chords directly.



http://www.ar-group.org/Files/More-(ChordStructure).pdf

So what type of sheet music is best for a keyboard player? Well, for this song, the one below, found for us by Den. Often called 'Busker' music as it only shows the melody and the chords. And note that the chord changes basically happen on the first beat of the bar (although not always).

If the PDF does not show, refresh the page (you may have to do this a couple of times).
Or you can click the PDF link below to load the music chords directly.



http://www.ar-group.org/Files/MoreBuskerVersion(G).pdf

In this version you can see chords that are aimed specifically at keyboard players .. 'slash' chords. With these chords you play the chord shown .. and 'force' the keyboard to play the note to the right of the 'slash' as a bass note. Also note that on the whole, the chords change on the first beat of the bar. Perfect for a keyboard!

As with any piece of music, chords shown are not necessarily the 'right' chords. They are the ones the 'arranger' of the music wishes you to play. I personally will keep the ones I play as those are the chords I want to hear.

Hugh

[Hugh-AR]

Another observation, which, if you haven't thought about it, I would like to draw your attention to.

Do we need a 'left hand voice'?

When I played my organs (I first had a Farfisa Balmoral, and followed that with a Yamaha AR80 .. which I still have) there was no question of not having a 'left hand voice'. The upper manual was for playing the melody, and the lower manual the accompaniment. The lower manual was set to be quieter than the upper by default. The Farfisa had no STYLES (just drums), so to get a 'rhythmic backing' one had to play a 'rhythmic pattern' with the left hand playing a chord on the lower manual. You got the bass in the pattern by playing a bass pedal.

When I bought my AR80, I bought it to play 'as an organ'. I had no idea there were STYLES I could choose which would give me a full accompaniment just by holding down a chord. The STYLE worked the same way as on a keyboard, and one had to split the lower manual and play that lower manual as if it were a keyboard ie. play your chords to the left of the split. The advantage of having this arrangement on an organ is that you had two sets of VOICES that were always available for you to play the melody .. the area to the right of the split on the lower manual, and the whole of the upper manual. If you played the melody on the upper manual (the louder of the two) one could jump down to the lower manual to play 'counter melodies' where appropriate .. and even reach down to the lower manual whilst holding a note on the upper ie. effectively playing both manuals at the same time. Here is an example where I have done this.

Wind Beneath My Wings played on my AR80 organ



On my AR80 organ I have three 'voices' that I can allocate between left of split and right of split. On my Tyros 4 I have one Voice (only one) that I can allocate to the left of the split, and three I can allocate to the right of the split. Older Yamaha keyboards only have two that you can allocate to the right of the split.

My question at the start of this was, "Do you need a 'left hand voice'?" Bearing in mind that we now have a STYLE playing all the accompaniment PARTS, a LEFT HAND VOICE would give you a continuous sounding chord in addition to the Style Backing. To look at this question constructively we must first take a look at what the keyboard actually does when you hold a chord down and get a 'backing part'. These PARTS are pre-programmed into the backing and triggered by the chord you play. But, the keyboard doesn't differentiate between inversions of a chord. So whether for a C chord you play C E G; E G C; or G C E .. the keyboard recognises this as a C chord and will play the same backing.

Now, if you add a LEFT HAND VOICE then the keyboard will play the actual notes you play with the VOICE you have chosen. I am talking here about the notes of the chord, not the 'backing part', which remains the same whichever chord notes you play. So inversions of chords will sound different. Your ear will 'pick up' the highest note of the chord you play and make that prominent. CEG will have the '5th' on top (G); EGC will have the 'root' on top (C); and GCE will have the '3rd' on top (E). Out of these three, the 5th is the least interesting sound to have. Root and 3rd sound great. And there is a difference in sound too on where you play your chord. Play CEG right down on the bottom left of the keyboard and those notes are so low they will 'growl' at you. Not pleasant! The STYLE, on the other hand, will play the same backing wherever you play your chord.

Here is an example of how having a Left Hand Voice can make a difference to the overall sound. I am not saying to use a Left Hand Voice all the time .. just use one as the mood takes you. But when you do use a Left Hand Voice make sure you have the 'balance' right. You don't want it drowning both the melody and the backing!

Beautiful Dreamer DEMO, first without a LEFT HAND VOICE .. and then with.



And don't be fooled into thinking that if you're not using a LEFT HAND VOICE, you don't have one. A 'Harmony Voice' is often incorporated within the STYLE .. in the PART called PAD.

An example of this for you to listen to. I have used the STYLE Danzon from LATIN. I have chosen Dark Fat Saw as the LEFT HAND VOICE, and so you can hear it I have upped the volume of that to 90.



I have turned all the PARTS in this Style to OFF except the RHYTHM, BASS and PAD.



And again, so you can hear what it sounds like more clearly, I have upped the Volume to 90.



The Voice being used in PAD is Real Strings. You can find out what voice is being used in any PART in a STYLE by pressing the top row of buttons (the bottom row turns the PARTS ON/OFF). You can change the Voice being used in a PART by choosing another one (they don't tell you that!).



The DEMO I have for you to listen to is this.

First. you hear the sound the PAD is making with it's RealStrings. I have played four chords: G (G B D); C (G C E); D7 (A C D F#); and finally G again (B D G) .. and repeated it. This final G I have deliberately played with the 'root' (G) on top. When the PAD is playing from the STYLE that top G does not play. The keyboard says, "All inversions of chords are the same to me. I play the G chord I am programmed to play .. in this case, G B D".

Second. I turn OFF the PAD and turn ON my LEFT HAND VOICE. This time, that top G does play as the keyboard will play the actual notes I play.

Third. I have both the PAD playing from the STYLE, and my LEFT HAND VOICE .. together.

Fourth. I have gone back to just my LEFT HAND VOICE.

DEMO of PAD from the STYLE and having a LEFT HAND VOICE.
Whilst you are listening to the below, check out the four ways I have played it, above.



There is a Moral to this story. Don't have both the PAD in the STYLE and a LEFT HAND VOICE going at the same time.
Using the Channel ON/OFF switch, turn the PAD to OFF.



Then, having replaced your PAD with a LEFT HAND VOICE you can play some meaningful notes that the keyboard will pick up. You can be a bit creative and choose inversions of your chords so that the 'top notes' in the chords you are playing form a little counter-melody. Example below:

DEMO of LEFT HAND CHORDS playing a counter-melody with the top note of the harmony.



One final thing worth mentioning. If you play most things in the keys of C, F and G then it's probably a good idea to have your SPLIT POINT on G2 ie. include the G in your left hand chords. When using a LEFT HAND VOICE you will find that top G very useful when forming chords. You can play a G as B D G (root of G on top); and an A7 as A C# E G (with the 7th sound on top).

Hugh

PS. I'm sure you have already sussed out that I used to sing in a choir!

[Ron]

Hi Hugh

Another master class but I find it completely overwhelming. I also disagree with your chord philosophy in that you play your own chords.

If possible, I always play the chords as were written by the original arranger of the music I am playing. Wrong chords tend to show up when this has been done by others. I also play the chords in whatever version is easiest for me to play and so use various forms of inversion in my chords. My main aim is correct musical sounds rather than trying to perfect harmony output from playing the chords which is specific to your own personal method. Each to their own seems to be a good motto here

Ron

[barwonfan]

I use AI Fingering exclusively. I like to think that it will attend to putting in the correct chord inversions for me. Thus allowing me to concentrate on getting the melody in sequence with the backing . My backings are always coming from the style which I think will sound best with the particular song I am playing. Sometimes , I switch off the ACMP at the start of a song.

[dentyr]

Well said Ron, my thoughts exactly. Regards, Den.

[Hugh-AR]

What I find interesting is the concept that there is a 'right' and a 'wrong' way to play something. Anything we play has to be an 'arrangement' done by somebody. I once knew a music teacher who invited me to go and listen to him playing in a pub. Not once for the whole evening did he have any 'music' up in front of him. I quizzed him about this, and it wasn't a question of him 'remembering' all the notes and chords. He said, "Why would I want to do that? When you listen to a song sung by the original artiste there are lots of things going on in the background ... counter-melodies and harmonies played by the various instruments in the band. They can't put all of those into one sheet of music .. and they don't even bother to try and put any of what you hear into their arrangement. What I do is to put as many of these bits and pieces I hear into what I play. You will not find what I play in any sheet of music. The sheet music you buy is just a very basic rendition of the main melody with nothing extra added, turned out for the mass market."

I can go along with that. That is why I don't play from sheet music either. I like to put in bits and pieces I hear in a song too. I think what Ron has said, "Each to their own seems to be a good motto here" is very true. And this, for me, includes the harmony. If I were a painter I think I would just use the basic primary colours. None of these subtle shades of pink. So no chords like EbmM7#11/D in what I play!

The reason why I often put in my own chords is because these are the harmonies I want to hear. They are not 'right', and they are not 'wrong'. Take God Save The King, This is played when we win Gold Medals at the Games. There is music for this in the Church Hymn Book. This is what they play.

God Save the King - The British National Anthem

If an advert appears, click the X in the top right hand corner of the rectangle to remove it.

This is how I play it.



Did you notice the different harmony in the second part? Probably not! I don't reckon there is any 'right' or 'wrong' when playing music. You play what you want to hear.

Ron's favourite music (??) He says, "Thelonious Monk plays chords that haven't been invented yet.".

Thelonious Monk - Don't Blame Me

Hugh

[Ron]

Firstly, I have to thank Hugh for posting the video of Thelonius Monk. He sounds even worse than I remember him. His performance brings back memories of Jimmy Durante who used to do a performance of a person looking for a lost chord on the piano. Not heard this for years. It appears to me that Thelonius Monk is still searching for it. It seems he spends a lot of time “ playing in the cracks” which was a comment from years ago to indicate the pianist was not too good. Technically he is good but most of it sounds distinctly out of tune which will be a familiar sound to some of us.

Fair comment to Hugh on how a melody can differ depending on how it is being played: by ear, simple arrangement or from the original musical score. My ear playing no longer exists, so I have to depend on the published music. Lots of talented musicians over the years have played by ear but going back to my professional life we had to play music that had been arranged due to the brass and saxophones in the band lineup.

Hugh .. I have played More from the sheet of organ music KenH found for us so you can hear how it sounds when played from the original music score. It has some interesting chords which I have played as part of the demo. It was the theme from an Italian movie Mondo Cano and has been recorded many times by Frank Sinatra etc. It was not originally performed in a Latin American rhythm but I played it as PopBossa1 on Tyros 3 at a speed of around 133 bpm. Used voices as were supplied by chosen style on my Tyros 3.



Ron

[Ron]

Here is a link to the Jimmy Durante song I mentioned in my previous reply.
Entitled “ I’m the man who found the lost chord”

Ron

[dentyr]

Hello Ron,

My ear playing no longer exists, so I have to depend on the published music.

You are probably playing from memory, just need the sheets to keep track of the chords. When I started learning to play the teacher would give us the sheet music to learn. Next week we had to play it from the sheet. Next week, no sheet music, play from memory. I need the sheets to remember the chords as I know the melodies by now. At least you can put up a sheet of script and work out what it is and then play it. I have to really work on a new piece, tinkle it out until I get the melody and then play it with the chords. This takes time and effort. To listen to someone else moaning or screeching away from the melody on YT is no way to learn a piece.
Just my thoughts.
Regards, Den.

[Ron]

Hi Den,

My memory is unusable for playing music.
In my younger days when I played in my rock band, we rehearsed new tunes using the standard sheet music, with the key transposed by me to suit the vocalist. All tunes in our repertoire were committed to memory very easily in those days. However, nowadays, if I do not have the music on view, then I cannot play anything worth listening to. I can pick out a melody, by ear, but that is not what I aim for when sitting down at the keys.

Ron

[dentyr]

Hello Ron, Sadly I have to agree with you on all respects. I have all my PDF sheets on my tablet for when I play out. Without the dots on lines I can get awfully lost. I know the melodies but I still need the dots to keep me on track. Wish I was 50 years younger, but then I would probably be getting myself into trouble. At that time I played in a dance band, met a woman and married her! She was my best teacher.
Regards, Den.

[JohnT]

Hi Hugh. Listened to all the posts including demos and all working. John